This stems from the celebrity crushes thread. I'm just talking physically here. Their record labels don't care about their talent, so why should we judge them on it?

I had to null my vote because no fiber in my being finds any of those women attractive or insanely talented.

Wow, Keith. I guess you just threw Avril Lavigne in with those others, but whatever. I voted for Mandy Moore, if for no other reason than she is (at least currently) a brunette. But I would rank any of these ladies ahead of Jessica Simpson.

Keith, we'll probably get lambasted for having opinions at all on this matter. You just wait...

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 10:41 pm on Oct. 23, 2002)

I figured Avril Lavigne was the same soup just reheated (credit: American Pimp) as those other girls. I'm sure some people find her attractive. I would have included that new piano playing singer girl too, but I forgot her name.

I'm also sure we'll get yelled at once the females make it to this post.

Yeah, but you don't like The Simpsons, so...

My thoughts exactly...I refuse to vote.

I voted for her. She wears ties and her ass isn't always hanging out. And she seems angry.



If we can salivate over boys in other threads, I think this is a relevant thread. Plus, who says girls can't think girls are hot? especially those that market themselves as "hot" above "talented", as you pointed out.

I said Jessica just because she was so damn cute on That 70s Show. Britney's eyes are too far apart.

Actually, my vote is for Jennifer Love. She sings, right?

Indeed she does, Carl, and beautifully.

I will step up as the first girl to post on this topic.
Avril Lavigne loses points in my book for use of the word "boi" in the title of a song.
I voted for Britney, definitely the most attractive of the choices and her performance and chemistry with Pharrell in "Boys" is undeniable.

etc - it's good to see you back here. Did you know that Avril Lavigne has never bought a CD in her life?

I know I'm a tomboy and that my identity is somewhat mysterious, but last time I checked, I had girl parts.

Vanessa Carlton. Oh, and you also forgot Michelle Branch.

I actually laughed at an SNL sketch the other night when Sarah Michelle Gellar played Christina Aguilera shotting a new video. She said she was trying to make the transition from being a record industry ho to a real ho. Funny stuff. I don't remember much of it. Can someone help me out here?

Lauren, I'm sorry. I am still new to this new fangled message board and I swear when I was typing my reply, there were no girl replies yet.
And I definitely agree with you on the "who says girls can't think girls are hot" thing. I have a deep admiration of Michelle Pfeiffer's beauty that I am open about. I think a new poll should be started listing "older" females.

Thanks jamiecarroll, and yes I did read that Avril has never bought a cd. Do you think it shows?

No problem- if you look back you can see our posts were only like 4 minutes apart, so they probably were simultaneous. I guess great minds think alike. Although I'm not so partial to Michelle Pfeiffer because she's so wispy. I'd probably go with Catherine Keener.

i think michelle branch is attractive. the others are just T and A

i'm so glad that the use of the word "boi" bothers someone else as much as it does me. this, along with the "crash the mall" sequence and the quote i use in my signature, makes avril lavigne one of those people i just love to hate.

I voted for Shakira because she didn't have any votes yet and because I think her songs do not make any sense. They are just good for shits and giggles.

(Edited by iwantelvis at 5:18 pm on Oct. 23, 2002)

Yes! I don't know which bothers me more, "Sk8r" or "boi". Are these products of the IM generation i.e. ttyl and c u l8r and things of that ilk?
And (maybe I'm an idiot for not knowing the technical term for this)but she constantly does that "rock" hand sign with her index and pinky fingers sticking up. I'm sorry to sound like a snob, but that's not cool anymore, especially if you are far from rocking.

I feel like a few other young pop princesses have been forgotten. Was it just me or was Tiffany attractive back in her day? And what about Kylie Minogue?

Definitely. I got to sit backstage at a Debbie Gibson show when I was 9 and I was beyond psyched. They were much less T & A, though I'm sure young men still used them as jack off fodder

I would be perfectly fine with a thread about hot girls, in general; however, since this thread is specifically about little or no-talent female pop singers (and since none of the options are hot in my opinion), I am a bit disgusted. Of course, I believe that girls can think certain members of the same sex are hot, but I don't see how anybody could respect these girls enough to include them in a poll of hottness. Even if they were hot, they wouldn't get a vote from me because I have no respect for girls who whore their ways into the music industry.

Also, Avril would be my last choice. For some reason people think she's cool with her misspelled songs ("Sk8r Boi"???) and Hot Topic ties and spikey armbands. I don't understand. She falls into a little category of people I like to call...phonies. In my opinion, she is no different from all the others. She's just foolin' everybody with her Hot Topic disguise. At least most people actually regard the other girls as what they are, outright sluts.

Now, I'm sure people are going to say that I shouldn't be calling them sluts, but that's how I feel about them. If they didn't whore themselves into the industry, which I think we all know that they did, then they sure are whoring themselves to their fans (and MTV viewers everywhere) in order to remain in the industry.

Of course, my pent-up aggression is directed toward the "women of rock" only, and by no means to anyone on the message board.

(Edited by Sexy Sadie at 5:35 pm on Oct. 23, 2002)

I know that's in jest (I hope)...but I really am attracted to a sense of humor and intelligence over looks. Granted looks do mean something, which is why Tina Fey is my number one. A Tina Fey one-liner is so much hotter than any video that any of those girls have made.

Except "Dirrty"...that is a peice of art (see my signature).

Doctor, it looks like we've hit a nerve!

It's like the Salem Witch Trials up in here.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 12:01 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

Yeah, I guess a nerve was hit. I tried to keep it all inside like I usually do, but I could not.

Welcome back etcetera.

I voted for Britney. As I said, this poll wasn't about talent, but Christina technically has the best singing ability, I think most people would agree. I probably like Britney's songs the most. Her slower ones suck (I'm Not A Girl, etc.), but the rest are catchy as hell. And I think there is just someting sexy about her. Honestly, it probably has to do with the way she is marketed: the virginal young girl that wants to have sex with you (even though we know she's not really virginal). There, I said it.

I think Shakira is really hot too. Her voice makes me sea sick though. Too much yodeling.

Christina looks better now that she's put on a little weight. Again, she is technically a good singer, but I think she over sings and most of her songs suck. I really don't get the new one.

I don't think Jessica Simpson is attractive at all. Mandy Moore is cute. Avril annoys me, but that first single (not sk8r boi) was pretty catchy. Michelle Branch was the one I couldn't remember. I can't decide if I hate her yet. Guess that covers it.

I must say that "I'm A Slave 4 U" was great in it's saucy hilarity (plus "Britney got Neptune beats!") and IWantElvis and I sang it all nite last Oct. 18th while waiting for the lipscomb Featuers show to start.

And Christina has put on a little weight? She still looks pretty bad to me, like her hair weighs more than her. Her diary was hilarious though. They showed the make-up application process and...the fact that she loved having 5 inch eyelashes cracks me up.

this topic is ridiculous....utterly insane. "the message board is dying a slow death" as someone from the past said...

That was me, and it wasn't as slow as I thought.

As lame and sex-driven as pop music is, it isn't anything new. I mean, really, how different is what Britney Spears is doing now from what Madonna was doing 15 years ago. Singing vaguely catchy songs (with a lot of help from writers/producers), but really selling sex. As much as we would love for pop. culture to center around Air and Radiohead, it doesn't. This is what the year 2002 is going to be remembered for. I know we are all really really cool, and can't discuss what's happening in mainstream America, but what else do we have to talk about? There are only so many ways of saying, "boy, The Features sure are great" without it getting boring.

###end rant###

i dislike avril but have you seen her backup guitarist or whatever? shaaawing! daaaamn gimmie a little bit of that SWEET ASS! ahem. sorry i think i got a little carried away..

Indeed.

I feel like talking about talented female musicians. Who here is a fan of Geraldine Fibbers? Carla Bozulich has a great voice and writes some great tunes. I consider "Butch" a must-own CD, if only for the first track, "California Tuffy" and the country tune "Folks Like Me." She runs with Nels Cline, who is an amazing guitarist on the LA jazz scene. They're currently working on a new version of Willie Nelson's "The Red-Headed Stranger" that is quite a departure from the original cut. I don't know when it will be released.

I totally agree with Keith.
And I'm probably going to set the women's movement back a few years with my Britney and colleagues perspective and afterwards retreat from the message board by saying this but....I think it's a given that sex sells and Britney, etc.'s mass appeal comes from their looks and the way that they present themselves, and that girls have a right to cringe and feel some pangs of insecurity at the thought of their boyfriends masturbating to such a media-tailored and what I consider talentless group of girls.
That said, I don't think their sexual marketing is totally negative. The fact that Britney packs arenas full of young girls whose mothers don't think allowing their daughters to attend a Britney concert will inevitably lead to them becoming "sluts" (a term that as a girl I take issue with anyway) is a good thing. Maybe I don't know, but I think people and the media for the most part, separate her sexiness, which is something girls should be proud of, from any notion of her being a "slut," which was not the case in Madonna's starting years.

ok i end rant now, too

Amen, Keith. Take a chill pill, some of you. We're just taking a lighthearted look at American pop culture in 2002, we're not voting for the president or anything. No one is seriously suggesting that Britney Spears rules. If you're offended by the topic, don't read it. If you think the message board is dying because of it, pahleeze. It's one damn topic. In 72 hours, it will have dropped off of the "Misc." page and will be forgotten about, and we can go back to discussing R.E.M. and Joy Division. Like YaDaDaDa has said so many times, we all take this MB way too seriously...

This sounds eerily familiar to what i posted in defense of my "totally irrelevant article of clothing" topic when everyone was jumping down my throat. Just an observation.

(Edited by ray davies at 1:55 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

Actually, while you are saying "amen" to Keith you are also criticizing him since, I believe, he was the person to originally say that the message board was "dying a slow death" earlier in the summer while referring to "one damn topic".

Also, I don't think that some of us need to take chill pills. If a person can express their extreme love for certain TV shows or celebrities, etc... then why can't they also express their dislikes of those same things without being criticized. This is after all just a message board: an outlet for people's thoughts and opinions.

(Edited by Sexy Sadie at 2:08 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

You mean criticizing other people isn't the point of message boards? I think everytime you feel like you're being mistreated in any way, shape, or form on this message board you should assume a yoga position and in a peaceful meditation ask the age old question "what the hell is wrong with me"

(Edited by Ceeze at 9:38 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

Wow, I didn't realize people harbored such resentment towards me. I feel so relevant. Anyway, I wasn't referring to one topic when I made that remark. Although a discussion about wardrobes of people I had never met didn't exactly fascinate me, I was really talking about the board, at the time, becoming a private conversation mostly between Ray Davies and Damon. And as a result, people like exliontamer, neuboy, smee, freezetag, blightman, and others whom I found interesting had for the most part stopped posting. Sorry if my comment offended, but it was the way I felt back then.

why thank you, keith. i didnt know that we had such tight grip on the message board at the time...

anyway, this infighting is becoming redundant. let's just move on.

(Edited by ray davies at 11:01 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

you're all a bunch of cry-babies. All those cool people left because of it. stupid cry-babies. Once again, I request a sarcasm smily.

No sarcasm intended for Keith, you suck. what a stupid topic.

Look out, when people pick on Keith I come running out to the ring with a folding chair.

Oh, don't worry ben, I was just having a little fun. Keith is a super guy in real life. Remember that kids? real life?

Nice avatar Deevol... I have nothing else relevant to say.

Hmmm...female pop stars I have little interest in...however, Liz Phair will always and forever be a babe. Hands down

-holey

I agree LIz Phair is a babe and she rocks. I also think she is kinda unappreciated. I don't hear very many people talking about her these days. Maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people. This was completely off the subject, oh well....

I've always thought that liz phair was a really good songwriter. "exile in guyville" of course is amazing, but "whip-smart" is very good as well, and very underrated in my opinion. and i've always thought that she was very attractive...

A year ago, I had the, ahem, privilege of working on a tour with Jessica Simpson. She sucks, plain and simple. She lip-synced all her songs but two, couldn't dance, was a jerk most of the time, and had fat rolls squeezing over the sides of her 12-sizes-too-small size 0 pants. Eden's Crush however, the female version of O-Town, was incredible and all very sweet. So was a girl named Toya. All this to say, I will have a date with Spears before I die.

i voted for avril. im not really sure why. it seemed the lesser of all the evils. she seems the least hookerish.

i did see that sat. night live skit. i was way funny.

i will njever get mad for posting about hott girls. we all know this as loing as you don't actually think they're talented. THAT would piss me off.

vanessa carlton's voice bugs the FUCK out of me. michelle branch cannot write songs and mandy moore is like 12.

I did consider Avril the lesser of all the evils once, but after reading her Entertainment Weekly interview, I like and RESPECT Britney Spears more than her. Here are some of Avril's tidbits:

Stupid Avril Moment #1
The interviewer says that he read that Avril had an inferiority complex in high school.
"A what?" Avril replies.
An inferiority complex.
"Using those words? See, that's what people do, man! I don't even know what that means. An inferiority complex? What does that mean?"

Stupid Avril Moment #2
When people make fun of Britney Spears, Avril says this: "I don't believe in that [making fun of her]. She's a human being. God, leave her alone!"
Then she turns right around and says "Have you seen Christina's video?" then makes a disgusting face and says "Poor girl." Hypocrite.

Stupid Avril Moment #3
"When fans show up with ties at the concert, it's cute because it's like yeah, support!"

Stupid Avril Moment #4
"People say, 'How many guys have you dated?' And I'm like, 'Whoa, excuse me, that totally offends me!'"

And the kicker...

Stupid Avril Moment #5
"Punk is a touchy subject. A punk is a person who's always getting in trouble and doing things they're not supposed to. Yeah, I do that...Then there's punk as a way of life, and punk rock as an aggressive form of music, which is very political, and I never said I was that...People are like 'Well, she doesn't know the Sex Pistols.' Why would I know that stuff? Look how young I am. That stuff's old, right? My favorite new band is Boxcar Racer, and I like blink-182, Sum 41, System of Down...but I just bought a Ramones CD, because I want to know what everyone's talking about."

Sigh...sigh...sigh...

To think that her album has sold in excess of four million copies makes me want to fucking vomit. I saw this segment on entertainment tonight about how she is making ties all hip and cool, it made me very angry. First of all, she wears ties around a "wife-beater" or a t-shirt. arent ties supposed to be worn around shirts that actually have a proper collar?!?! oh, and they showed this designer guy ruining a very cute skinny white tie by spray painting it pink. i hate it when people say that she is a role model to millions of girls around the country. all of the quotes that digsy posted prove that she is a product of her record company and that she is a moron. enough said...

have yall ever heard her talk? she cant say her "r"s or something but she seriously sounds like she is four. no offense to those who cant say thier r's im sure its a cute boston-y thing with you but ughh hers makes me want to beat her with a stick

can i take my vote back? im sorry! this is just infuriating. the fact that they give stupid re -re's record contracts and i still don't have one just plain sucks. i have no words for how much this chick sucks.

Whoa! Hold on just a minute... etcetera AND Lauren have girl parts?!? I'm gone for a week and the whole world turns upside-down.

Alright...I voted for Britney. She's easily the best looking of the group, and since Keith said that we are not judging on talent at all, I can let myself slide and vote for her this once.
Hey, I know a pretty girl when I see one, whether she wears her pants too low in the front and her skirts too short or not.

Brittany is the most attractive. But I voted for Christina because she makes me laugh everytime I see her or when she opens her mouth and says ridiculous things like "we're taking it back to the roots" in reference to her new song/record. Holy shit, if her new song/video is her roots i want to see the porn videos she used to do.

then i bulldog 'em, give 'em a german suplex, and finish it with a figure four leglock. then for good measure mr. fuji breaks out his cane. sweet lord......this topic got very heated for absolutely no good reason. i wish that happened more.

k...whoever said liz phair...AGGHHH..she don't even need to be mentioned up in this thread cause liz phair is rock ... and we can't stick her next to mandy moore..lol

too much avril talk...cause seriously (and i know i'm not the only one here that feels like this) but just seeing her and listening to her and after reading those quotes...i literally get sick. like i wanna throw up... VOMIT FIERCELY.

aguilera, wehn she caam eout i thought she was gonna be the "GOOD" one....compared to britney...but...watching "dirrty" ...she's the nastiest coochie in showbiz.

britney, well...it's britney...love her/ hate her...who cares..? casue she's hardly annoying.

My girl (who i was dissapoijnted to not see in the poll) is PinK.
i mean...sure i think she's a product (maybe not as much as the others) but come on....at least they got linda to write her album...so it's good.
i'm a pink fan.

she's my favoritest..."like WHOA...i'm a poet"

Yeah, I forgot about her.

Did y'all see Aguilera on the Daily Show? She was so retarded. I now would probably call her the worst.

More Avrilisms, this time from the New York Times:

"Punk doesn't have anything to do with your music. I could be punk and have pop music."

What she looks for in a mate: "I have little things, like I want him to be a rock star..."

[To her band], "Hey guys, am I manufactured? My look?"

And, in case you hadn't received the memo, "I used to wear ties, but I'm over that."

As subscribers to Rolling Stone know, Avril ToTaLlY PuNk Lavigne is on the cover, and delivering even more idiotic statements. I haven't even finished the article yet, but I had to share this:

"Lavigne never listened to much music until she hit puberty...which is one reason she had never seen David Bowie's name when it came time to read it off a list of nominees at a Grammy press conference. (She pronounced the "bow-" like "bow-wow" rather than "bow-tie.") 'Did people think that was bad?' she asks coyly. 'What's the big deal? I was born in 1984 - why would I know who he is?'"

Wow...that is so totally punk...

And on to the writing of "Complicated" the writing trio (The Matrix) say this:

"She came up with a couple of things in 'Complicated,' like, instead of 'Take off your stupid clothes,' she wanted it to say 'preppy' clothes"

And the kicker.....

Avril's bandmates are trying to school her in the ways of music by giving her Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins and Pixies' CDs. On the Pixies Avril says "I don't know about that..." Then Johnny Rzeznik of the Goo Goo Dolls(her musical idol) gave her a CD.

"What's that CD that Johnny Rzeznik bought me?" she asks her tour manager. "It starts with an R." She then asks the reporter who Rzeznik's idols were, to which he says "The Replacements?" "Yeah The Replacements!" she says, "I never have time to listen to it, but I like it."

(Edited by DigsySlattery at 5:22 pm on Mar. 3, 2003)

there's a connection here.....avril was born in 1984, there's a song called 1984 on an album called "diamond dogs" by a certain man named.....David Bowie!, who was also the man whose name avril couldn't pronounce......it all makes sense.

I did not think that I could dislike her more. I thought wrong. Her ignorance is beyond words.

she is very stupid......quite the moron.

of course she likes it because the "almighty musical genius" Johnny Rzeznik(?) gave it to her......

Every one of the candidates in this poll is "quite the moron". In the words of the Sadie..."It's a moronathon!"

at least shakira can speak two languages.....

She also possesses a scary warble and crazy tummy shaking abilities.

And she endorses Pepsi, like Michael Jackson once did. That makes her cool.

This is all very entertaining to me! Since this thread started, we have also seen the addition of Sahara Hot Nights and The Donnas (mmm...no! bad richarddawson...). I voted for Mandy Moore, because of her girl-nextdoor appearance. She's a babe, especially with brown hair.

Those are great quotes, DigsySlattery. It's amazing how someone can get so far in the music industry while knowing so little about its history, isn't it?

i'm not an avril lavigne fan. however, i do think it's more "punk" to not give a shit about david bowie than to believe that you have to be familiar with his work in order to be a good musician.

i am a david bowie fan.

this is a principle.

(Edited by 6969hOoBaInCuBuS420 at 9:15 pm on Mar. 3, 2003)

I get your point, but it really irks me that a person like Avril Lavigne, who is totally void of any musical taste/knowledge has a record deal and actually has millions of people fooled into thinking that she is "totally real."

Overall it doesn't really matter, but reading about people who know less about music than me just makes me chuckle.

Hmm...could this be going the way of the Justin Timberlake thread?

Don't expect me to don an Avril avatar in defense of her.

A small part of me would die if you did.

What a just place the world would be if only the music business rewarded things like talent and musical knowledge more often than image.... <sigh>

Avril is indeed a moron... and a rather unatractive one at that. her eyeshadow makes her look like a zombie from the original Night of The Living Dead. I know the thread was meant to be based purely on looks, but she can't sing worth crap either. Any one who's in the music buisness should know who david bowie is, and at least know how to pronounce his name.

ohh, and by the way, brittany is the hottest out of them all, even if she is fake... and dumb... and really superficial

I somewhat agree with you; but she's not being punk by not knowing these things; she's just being an idiot. you don't have to be familiar with his work to be a good musician. you should have at least HEARD of thre guy. and may i state for the record, that avril is NOT a good musician.

Stalker is Rob Gordon. FYI: Rob Gordon is a NASCAR driver. Congrats on being a celebrity in the world of stock-car racing! (and no, I'm not confusing him with Jeff Gordon. Though, I am rather embarrassed to know the difference.)

its always nice to be looked up to.

Rob is also a Nick Hornby character. Nick writes pretty decent books.

that's kind of the one I was going for.

not only does she use it in the title, but she rhymes it with itself... no fucking talent.

Ray Davies told me that Nick is coming out with a new book that has to do with his favorite albums. This excites me because I'm quite a fan of his work.

On a random note, my sister bought me a used hardback copy of How to be Good at Great Escape for Christmas and it was signed "To Rachel, Roxy Music Rox". I thought this was very funny and odd.

(Edited by iwantelvis at 8:51 am on Mar. 4, 2003)

i am very much looking forward to this book as well......it should be very very good.

Is this different from his book "Songbook," which came out in December and is about his favorite songs and songwriters and comes with a free CD?

I know it includes hip faves like Nelly Furtado and Ani Difranco, but I have to give him props for including Patti Smith's "Pissing in a River" as one of his favorite songs.

this could be the book......i was under the impression that it was about his favorite albums, but i could be wrong. i'm usually wrong.

this can be ordered at: http://store.yahoo.com/mcsweeneysbooks/songbook.html

i got the book for my brother-in-law for christmas; i don't know if he's read it yet but i plan on borrowing it when he's through (selfish xmas present, i know...)
anyone familiar with mcsweeneys and dave eggers? check out www.mcsweeneys.net if you get a chance. the lists are especially funny. dave eggers is an exceptional, witty writer & everyone should read his book "a heartbreaking work of staggering genius." he's the mastermind behind the website; they put out a quarterly publication that's great, but just really dang expensive. i saw him speak last year at vanderbilt with sarah vowell (another great writer; she's a regular on "this american life" on npr & sounds a lot like lisa simpson...her book "take the cannoli" is really good.)
enough of this.

Yes, and I had to laugh when I saw that he made the cover of his new book (title?) begin on the cover. Anyone read it? I was waiting until it came out in paperback -- probably already has, but I've been busy.

i've read about 3/4 of it ("you shall know our velocity")...it's pretty good so far.

Thanks for the info., smee. Looks like something to add to the "to read" list.

Mandy Moore got my vote too, because the trailer for How to Deal is so laughably terrible.

The stoner grandmother character is so reminiscent of Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood that I might actually see the movie.

Will

yes! god bless you, wiyum, for being a don't be a menace fan!
"what's yo name? cigarette? no, ashtray."

"My milk of magnesia!"

"One fish two fish, red fish blue fish, nick-nack patty-whack, giveadogga bone!"

Ah such a great movie.