I notice on the news they never say how many iraquies that have died. What the hell, there are poor kids getting birth defects and getting cancer from depleted uranium.

to see the effects of depleted uranium go to www.bushflash.com then find the video poisoines legacy

The reason they never show it is because it will lower Bush's election chances. Also, many of the american people don't think about this or , as cold-hearted as it sounds, don't care. If they don't know the people getting dieases or dying in other countries, they don't care a single bit.

that is why america sucks.

I am REALLY not sure what you're point is, or where you're going to show that the current president has anything to do with IRAQIS getting Cancer? The studies that show a higher level of Uranium in their system are people with the metal IN their bodies from the GULF WAR and OPERATION DESERT STRIKE. Neither one of these conflicts happened during George W. Bush's presidency.

Also, the Defense Department during Clinton's reign released reports saying nothing irregular was up with the children of the people surveyed. And we're talking about vets who have been hit by friendly fire and didn't just ingest the "dust", but have it in their blood and bodies still. The real risk isn't the radiation, but whether or not
these men and women's kidneys would be effected because uranium is a dense metal.

Anyways, NATO and other's have disproved and continue to disprove those theories correlating DU and birth defects, cancer, etc., (basically all those atrocities shown in the video).

This is one of the last times I do your homework for you kids. Depleted Uranium isn't as radioactive as you guys think, and I say this as I am typing in a Nuclear Pharmacy. I understand. People hear 'radioactive' and get suspicious, in the same way they see radioactive signs on a box that I deliver and immediately cover their reproductive organs.

I'm sure as you go through school, especially in all those Honours classes, you'll learn to discriminate between opinion web sites, and sites that are based on facts. My question is, where does this guy get his information, because it is obviously flawed propaganda.

But that's what makes the internet great. We're all equals. Crazies can have the same space as anyone else to put whatever they want on their space.

Piece, ya'll.

(Edited by foldsfan at 11:20 am on Dec. 9, 2003)

I don't want to get all jingoistic on you (and no, that's not Boba Fett's grandpa) but I have been in some serious shitholes around the world. The US has its problems, no doubt, but your worst problem of your worst day in your priviledged life does not add up to one fucking ounce of misery I have seen in kids younger than you.

When you have watched your parents be butchered by soldiers with machetes and you have to pull your dead sister over you and hide, not move for days, piss and shit yourself because you don't know where the soldiers are; then and only then can you come on here and say your country sucks.

Bush is not a good president, I think you'll find overwhelming agreement there. But this country does not suck. You won the lotto when you were born naked, screaming and American.

Now go look up jingoistic for your vocab word of the day.

You're so knowledgeable, foldsfan. I'm impressed.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 12:04 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

Some people just can't appreciate cheap and easy birth control like you and me, dawg.

I did, and by George, it's a keeper!

A whole lot of time\boredom coupled with really getting tired of hearing people my age talk about the issues. A lot of them are just opinions fueled by whatever party they're affiliated with, liberal or conservative.

I'm getting a crush on your smarts.

If only I were so well-read.....

None of that matters as long as you're knowledgable on the topic of love

Allow me to spread my liberal-for-the-sake-of-being-liberal propaganda on your young mind and encourage you to visit www.iraqbodycount.net. Who knows if it's accurate but I commend people for making an effort.

Also www.thenation.com--one of the oldest progressive periodicals in the country. I just went to www.bushflash.com and I think The Nation is a bit more reliable.

(Edited by etcetera at 2:56 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

I feel really dumb, but I'm happy that I was corrected.

Regardless of the validity of your statement or how misguided your reasons for making it, you are allowed to voice it, no matter what anyone says. However, if you truly feel this way, or only partially feel this way then you should by all means do something about it. Just saying America sucks is short-sighted. Find out what needs to be different and try to change it little by little. Change will only come through action. Your first mission should be to read as much as you can from every viewpoint on every issue whether it be politically, socially, economically, locally, nationally, globally. You'll never be done doing this, but during the process you should be able to begin deciphering where truth lies. Your opinions will waver on some things you previously felt sure of, you'll feel stronger on others. Once you've begun doing this the informed opinions you hold will be respected by others at the least, and maybe you'll actually be able to start doing something worthwhile besides passive dissension and mumbling under your breath.
This is senseless babbling. I'm not sure where it all comes from. I just felt like getting it out there. Sorry.

(Edited by Ceeze at 4:36 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

is that your own original thought or just a repeat of something you read somewhere, Ceeze?
Either way.. I agree with you, as well.. I would encourage everyone to actually read the news... both young and old.

Oh, and you guys are the older people I hated as a high schooler. So you are 5 years older than they are, Foldsfan? That gives you the right to talk down to them, by all means! I mean, we all know nobody else on this board ever offers opinions on things they aren't 100% educated about....only the wee ones, right?

Well, I guess it's all just a right of passage.

Well, first, i wasn't talking down to them at all, anymore than they were talking up to me. Maybe, just maybe, you could take what I said about kids and homework that way, but really I was trying to get them to read up on the subject first. Sorry kids. The rest- all facts.

(Edited by foldsfan at 6:16 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

I think that one should be at least a little educated on a topic before posting, since the idea of posting is to get replies, and start some sort of conversation-type thing, expressing varying viewpoints. Personally, it didn't seem to me like he was talking down to them, it just seemed like he was stating the facts.

You guys were the older people I looked up to in high school, and then read things so I could try to impress you.

I'm not really big on reading up on a topic. I usually hear, read, or see all I need to know when I hear, read, or see it. That gives me enough to make my basis opinion. The stuff y'all find helps me better that opinion. If it hasn't already been bettered by someone else.

(Edited by Erwic88 at 6:23 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

So you stop short of seeing if what you read or hear is accurate or can be verified by other sources? You don't try to see if maybe there is another, equally or more valid viewpoint out there on the subject? Tis a dangerous route to fall into.

And on the subject of young'uns online, I was never suspected of being younger than the majority of the boards I posted on in high school, even though I frankly was. It is possible to not draw attention to the age thing. Really. No one need talk down to anyone, and certainly no one need talk up to me of all people.

Will

Foldsfan i appreciate your intressting input on uranium. But it kills man it is not wether it gives birth defects or causes cancer the facts is it kills maybe it is just a coincidence that baby's have terrible birth defects or cancer during these recent bombings. You are truly way more intelligent than I am, but my point was that people are dying who dont deserve to. We say we should take suddam out of power, but we are killing more people than he did. america to me sucks if our head leader sucks. Iam not trying to argue but it is what i believe.

ha! one step ahead of you. i had it copied and ready to look up before i even read your suggestion to!

(ps- one of my friends used the word defacate yesterday!)

Understood, and maybe I took what you said the wrong way.. I just know when people talked to me like that when I was 15, I found it to be really upsetting and discouraging.

But I'm overly sensitive to criticism even now.

Regardless, I applaud the effort to learn more from educated people in the proximity. I don't think it's a bad thing to post an uneducated viewpoint if the poster is open to being shot down by those who are more educated...that's how we learn!

i agree

I concur.

I TOTALLY AGREE!

This "messageboard education" will be, in many ways, far superior to most of what these guys get at our public schools, so keep it up.

I'm also thinking that some of you would be great teachers.

If Rachel wanted to she could teach. Most defenintly foldsfan you can tell he really puts thought into his opinion.

whooooa

i really don't think i'm who Token had in mind. thanks, though?

Hey, it takes a messageboard to raise a...

He just sees your age and wants to meet you...

That's a very silly question. As I've told you before, I am not one to actually have original thought. Any wisdom found within me is based solely on the regurgitation of other people's ideas that I have at some point read, overheard, or otherwise come into contact with. I assure you there is never any synthesis involved.

You are a giant fucking idiot. Selfish, selfrighteous, and full of shit...

calm the fuck down.

Aren't most people at 14, selfish, selfrighteous, and full of shit?

Thanks for the advice...but no thanks...

I am sick and tired of listening to uneducated crybaby quipping from the masses. All of this "America sucks" coming from people sitting behind a computer that cost more than the average annual income of families in many 3rd world countries.

How many of these whiny moral relativists work a 40hr a week job? Do they know what it is like to not eat for 3 days? Do they fear a government that would have you arrested for listening to unlicensed radio stations? Have any of these people ever been sick and been told by a doctor, "sorry, there is no medicine available to help you."

All of this disdain for America by it's own people is embarrassing and pathetic. Yes the system has flaws, yes many mistakes are made, but that is how it is, that is how it works, it is not because of Democracy, it is the fault of the people inside of the Democracy who choose to abuse it. Make a mark by voting out the idiots who make bad choices, by helping people who have less than others, by utilizing the astounding amount of freedom and potential wealth the America allows all of us to aspire to.

Sitting behind a $500 computer, in a home with a refrigerator full of food, a TV, and a stack video games by ones side and making a comment like "America Sucks" is, as I said previously...selfish, self-righteous, and full of shit...

(Edited by Flat Chop To The Throat at 11:53 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)

ding ding ding.... and for the record, whoever said 5 years older... try 16 years older... The internet wasn't around when I was in high school

yeah, well it really helps your cause to call names and be disrespectful when you have absolutely no idea how serious he was about his statement. You're no better by complaining that "americans suck" (a paraphrase) and you're the reason that positive discourse doesn't happen. Whether america sucks is not only relative but also a matter of opinion which he is allowed to have. and that is why america should be great.

He never said all of America sucked, you know.

14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34........................................95, 96, 97.......................

Your point?

This country was founded by whiny rich boys.

1) Don't make excuses for other people. I you don't mean it, don't say it

2) How is this debate not ultimately positive? We are going back and forth over an issue sharing ideas are we not?

I can make excuses for other people if I so choose to. That doesn't change the fact that I wasn't, but merely pointing out to you that not only is there an immense amount of sarcasm on the board, but that you may have misinterpreted his post. And it's not ultimately positive because the person that one should have tried to have intelligent debate with was ridiculed. You're not Sina, so shut up.

(Edited by deathscythe257 at 12:15 am on Dec. 10, 2003)

damn boys... mellow out duuuuuudes

Well pass the fucking doob already.

(Edited by deathscythe257 at 12:18 am on Dec. 10, 2003)

I don't know Sina...

Shut up? Wow...that is real big of you...

I can, and will say whatever I please Jacko...And I will be happy to banter back and forth with you on any subject. But I will not "shut up", having said that allow me to one up you with an Eat Shit...

Well, I think you've successfully lost all credibility.

Is that all you've got? What do you know about my credibility? It looks to me that you crammed you nose into a subject and tried to play Mr. Cool Soapbox and someone didn't back down to your gum slapping crap. Do want an apology from me Mr. Fix-It? Good Luck...

Dude, I'm stuck at work until 2 a.m. What's your excuse?

I'm just drunk...

Finally a retort in the vein of dark humor that is my modus operandi! Congratulations!

I don't see how that was dark humour. At all.

Also, if I made a joke the way you would, I move that it be stricken from the books.

Your no fun...Fine stricken it is...I will just pull back my outstretched open hand from your direction and put a red check by your name on my list of unfriendly...Damn this list is getting long...

Simmer down guys.

He was out of line to say that America sucks. Plain and simple. I put up with it more than I care to admit, people actually arguing that living in America under Bush is worse than most countries have it... I can't believe how shortsighted people can be. But I think (hope) he knows he was wrong. No reason to get into this crazy argument.

Will

The only people who have the right to say "America Sucks" are Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans, Central Americans, Indonesians, Canadians and Austrialians. In order to say "America Sucks" you should move to one of these regions. But then once you do move there your opinion will be rendered "irrelevent" since you're no longer American and thus your opinion does not count. It's a beautiful thing really, America can never be thought of as "sucking" by Americans or people who matter. It's a nice racket.

Oh and apparently we take the word "sucks" and really add a whole hell of a lot of meaning around here. You know, like "sucks" is worse than say "hellhole" or "shithole". Please take note.

{The following was written with tongue in cheek you bastards}

Why don't you shove it up your admin ass

Hey Peace Frog, were you in the "Shit"?

I've been in more shit than a 3 year old has crapped in his life... nuff said

I have been known in the past to utter things quite similar to "America sucks". This would always occur during a fit of exasperation at something that has happened, and rightfully so. Becoming frustrated with our country is no different than all those times my dad gave me hell for something I had done. "If I didn't love you, I wouldn't get on to you. If I didn't love you, I wouldn't give a shit son." If you truly love America, you won't just smile and close your eyes. You'll pay attention to what is going on, and get mad and disappointed when our country does something wrong. Then again, what do I know. I'm selfish, self-centered, and full of shit.

(Edited by Ceeze at 10:35 am on Dec. 10, 2003)

Ceeze, you are dead on, I was just wound up on the "America sucks" thing because this was coming from a seemingly apathetic priveledged youth who has no idea about the misery in the world.

A couple of years ago I sent 40 pairs of soccer socks to this orphanage I've had a relationship with in El Salvador. I was a bit embarassed because I wanted to send full uniforms, but I could only really afford to send the socks. So I figured it's better than nothing. I got back over 100 of the most touching thank yous you have ever read in your life. For $1.50 socks!!! They were so proud that they could play in the city soccer league with real uniform socks... When's the last time you've slipped on a pair of socks, and said "Damn, I love my socks?"

That is why America does not suck.

That is awesome Peace Frog...Good for you...

I'm not looking for a pat on the back... I was trying to make a point on how we are sitting here yapping on computers that the price of could feed that orphanage for 6 months. And when I say feed, I'm talking tortillas and beans... everyday, and you'd think someone had plopped down filet mignon every meal.

I got your point Peace Frog...I just wanted to acknowledge your effort because I thought it admirable...

I guess today I need you.
And I’m sorry about the past,
The way I’ve flippantly thrown you aside
Or left you feeling dirty and worthlessly.
I’ve made some mistakes.
I’ll openly admit that to you now.
I’ve put you in some pretty rough spots
And treated you like some piece of laundry.
For all of that, I’m truly truly sorry.
But I wouldn’t trade one moment of our time together.
You have to know that I always did care.
From the way you look, I see you’re torn,
And not sure whether to take me back,
But I need you so much right now.
Without you, I’m so very cold.
I love you dearly, my only pair of tube socks

If you love them so much, maybe you should show them.

I prefer Kleenex.

First of all I have every right to say America sucks. Sure we dont have it as bad as other countries. I am affected by this stuff though. I never said i hate this we have it so bad here in this country. If you go back and read the things i have said you would know that. I am affended by this. Also I am not some moron who doesnt know anything about the world. Good for peace frog for her donations, but the facts are the children of iraq are dying. And if our president were the real president who is Al gore, this crap would not be happening.

That is correct. Al Gore is the candidate that more people wanted to be president. But, our awesome electoral college really doesn't let us choice who our president is. This last one just proved this point. The only way we can have some power in choosing our president is voting for representatives that will most likely choose the candidate that you want. But not a lot of people realize that this point. Plus, this whole depleted uranium thing didn't only occur during the G.W. administration. This has happened over a longer period of time than Geogre. But, he has been using it. So, he still deserves the shit that's being said about him.

The electoral college is there for a reason. If it were popular vote, no politicians would bother to campaign in states with smaller populations. The residents of that state would have even less of a chace to have their voices heard. And as we know, electoral votes count a lot more that popular votes. Maybe if Gore had won his home state which had 11 votes.....

He probably would have if Tennessee had had a better educational system.. He should've worked on that before he moved on to bigger things.

I'm a dude... nobody called you a moron... a little spell check here and there and some proper sentence structure goes a long way in people's perception of you... It's offended not affended...

I'm glad you are riled up about this, but I'll stand by my assesment that blanket statements like "America Sucks" shows ignorance. It's very easy to stand back and bitch about things that bother you, but it takes real courage to stand up and make a change. Go volunteer to help change the things you don't like.

Actually Peace Frog...I think I called him a moron...Or something to similar to that...

Oh Eric. Don't go and do something silly like bash the electoral college just because your candidate didn't win. If you want to bitch about what happened in Florida, that's fine (although...well, nevermind). But don't blame the electoral college. It's like wanting to get rid of traffic lights just because they sometimes turn red when you're in a hurry.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 6:34 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)

It actually had nothing to do with the electoral college. It had to do with the bush family. Jeb bush the governer of florida and katherine Harris. She went down to florida and wiped any felon from voting, even the misdemeanors like speeding or littering. In some cases, some people with a similar social security or birthday were taken off the voting list. Also some of the over seas absentee ballots. George bush made sure any ballots lying around be voted on and sent back over. And the person in charge of election coverage for fox is george bush's cousin. He is the one who announced That bush won when gore won.

Actually, I'd argue that the electoral college benefits larger states. As it stands, politicians can win by only taking the largest states... California alone gives you alot of electoral votes. Were it popular vote, every person's vote would have equal bearing, instead of a weighted electoral system. But that may just be me not thinking of all of the ramifications again.

Will

Gore can hardly be held accountable for anything in Tennessee. He's hardly ever been there. He was born and raised in DC, plain and simple. I just have a hard time associating him with my home.

I also am not afraid to admit that I never liked him. I remember seeing him speak once, and the sight of his motorcade, which was huge and spewing an excess amount of exhaust fumes, while his speech was literally about regulating the automotive industry's polution output, never sat well with me.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Bush too. When it was narrowed down to them, I knew we were screwed. Give me the McCain/Bradley election in 2000 any day. Either way, we'd be better off than we are now.

And I voted for the only "real" Tennessean on the ballot, Harry Brown, the Libertarian candidate. Though I didn't know he was from Tennessee, much less my hometown of Franklin, until months after the election.

Will

(Edited by Wiyum at 11:56 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)

Sounds like an episode from The Kingdom of Nye. Still getting our info from propaganda sites?

nope. still getting it from that one book he read.

Yes, as an outdated institution put in place to keep the elite in power because our founding fathers didn't believe the american public intelligent enough to make our own decisions.

yeah that distrust is probably why they gave us the constitution and the bill of rights.

Excellent point.

I wouldnt call the information from Micheal moore propoganda, it is facts.

I thought Bowling for Columbine was the most smug, overdramatic presentation of "facts" I've ever seen. He's not a reporter, he's an analyst with a clear agenda. He interjects his opinion in such a way as to not be noticeable to some. I think his audience consists primarily of those who are chomping at the bit to uncover a nationwide conspiracy that may or may not be there. At least, that's how I see it.

i thought it was a fun movie to watch. and i thought the tapes from inside the high school were particularly interesting.

You've got a view of what constitutes "facts" and what constitutes "propaganda" that is entirely discordant from my own. Michael Moore is propaganda, it is just propaganda that you are politically aligned to. That doesn't make it unbiased, rational, or true.

Sources that don't have stated political agendas are normally more trustworthy than those that do, by the way.

Will

No way Will, he used to plow the fields in Carthage. psyche...

get a fucking clue for once.

Bowling for columbine is less propoganda than his books. Bowling For Columbine is about guns in america and school shootings. There is no propoganda to that because people who were there were interviewed. And the fact that scholl shottings never have conspiracys

Look, I'm not going to argue Bowling for Columbine (loved the movie) but I can tell you, with 4 documentaries under my belt and a wife with an MSJ from Medil, you can cut a movie or any journalistic piece just about any way you want.

Sure, those people said those things, but depending on the music cues, the way you cut their interview up and the b-roll (pictures over them talking) you can make a puppy dog loving, homeless feeding, charity ball heading chick look like Hitler. Michael Moore has an agenda. I'm sure all the facts he states can be backed up, but for every fact out there there is another that disputes it.

I watched a doc yesterday that was about the moon landing being a hoax. It was pretty damn convincing, almost to the point where I was like, "Wow, they really pulled that over on us!" and then I realized that there were probably 200,000 people involved in the Apollo program, and there would be no way in hell to cover something like that up. Yet, all their "facts" were very convincing.

I love your enthusiasm hereiamagain (on my owwwwwwwwn) but when something trips your trigger (no pun intended) you need to study both sides of the issue then make an intelligent choice. I'm on your side on this one, but when you argue blindly like that you sound as ridiculous as the right wingers that spew Rush jargon like its fact.

Get over yourself! Michael Moore is a propagandist. You may agree with him. I think his stuff is great. But unbiased it is not. PF put it rather eloquently, so I'll not repeat him, but there are two sides to any argument, and the more convincing one side seems, the more likely it is that they are witholding something from you. Just because Bowling for Columbine is all video and film footage doesn't mean it suddenly is more true. That bank where he goes and gets a gun for opening an account? That was two different days... there's a three week waiting period where they do a number of security checks. Didn't look like a three week waiting period in the movie, did it? Well, Moore dressed the same three weeks later so that it wouldn't appear different. Though that doesn't change the fact that there is a bank that gives out guns, it does change the nature of that phenomenon as Moore presented it, and every five minutes of that movie there is a story similar to this one that demonstrates how Moore is playing the audience like a piano.

All I'm saying is you need to be alot less accepting of anything you hear from an obviously biased source. PF is right... you sound like a Rush Limbaugh junkie, and the only reason you're able to get away with it is because most everyone here agrees with your politics.

Will

Hey, Peacefrog. You never mentioned your wife went to Medill before... GO CATS!

You're not the only fancypants on here...

look. i agree that its fucked up that gore was elected and isnt president. i just think that its a lame argument to blame the constitution for his loss. blame florida, blame corporations and money, or blame the state of tennessee for not giving him the majority of our votes- but dont blame the constitution. yeah, its antiquated. yeah, it made a lot more sense before there was mass media. and yeah, in the past, people would have easily voted without full education on all of the candidates. but hell, people still vote without full education on all of the candidates. i disagree that it was created out of distrust in the american people, i think that they were looking out for the population of thirteen states to prevent central government from overcoming the democratic voting process as well as preventing the natural popular vote for the best-known candidate from their state/region.

the way i look at it is, we [including gore] all knew the rules of the game when we entered it. he "lost" for other reasons.

I'd be willing to wager that 70% of our population knew not of the electoral college before the 2000 elections. I don't blame anything for "gore loosing." I'm not upset about gore having lost. I'm just saying it's time for an ammendment. It's not unheard of, ya know.

as far as central government overcoming a democratic voting process, well, the electoral college does just that. not to mention the fact that the federal government, since the civil war, can mandate anything it wants to the states and we eat it like it's buttered popcorn.

on another point, i think the key to a dem winning the 2004 race will probably be playing up states' rights vs. Bush's federalist policies.

(Edited by deathscythe257 at 4:18 pm on Dec. 12, 2003)

I'd be willing to wager that 70% of our population now knows not of the electoral college.

I went to college, but it wasn't electoral college.

They are the Electoral College Fighting Chads, right? Naw, probably the Tigers...

I will say it one more time micheal moore is not a propogandist. Also let me re-phrase my america sucks. Our government sucks not the country itself. I also am not some overprivilaged white boy. I have seen what third world countries are like. They are better than America. Just because they are poor doesnt mean their countries suck. People who I saw in Ecuador were much happier, even though they had hardly 20 cents to their name. America gets pissed about the smallest little things.

i think you planned that one out, buddy!

because i am pissed that they think I am stupid.

Oh I know, dude. I'm just playing.

ok

1) Yes, they provide my cocaine.

2) Maybe they would be richer if they had more cocaine.

Not exactly my point but see they dont suck. People like you need their cocaine

Way to back that one up.

Classy.

I'm out of this one. You don't want to be reasoned with, and God help you if you ever find yourself in an area dominated by conservative thought, because to a liberal, you sound like a raving lunatic willing to believe anything. You can stand by your man all you want, but arguing that someone with stated political bias is universally correct without ever thinking to check a second source for corroboration is just ludicrous, plain and simple. You can labor under the misapprehension that there's nothing wrong with it or you can wake up, realize that all media sources are subject to a certain amount of bending of facts, that clearly biased sources are more keen to do so, and in response be alot less naive in your digestion of the media.

You've been upset because you feel that many on this board talk down to you. Well, we've never talked down to some people that are your age that are on the board (well, we may have joked with rach a bit, but that was all harmless, right rach?). The fact is, I usually only know the age of someone here because they bring it up. You've behaved yourself in a manner that reveals your youth, and not in flattering ways. Listening to reason every now and again is something that adults do too. Try it. You simply don't have the clout that someone like Sina has to pull off the unreasonable attitude.

Will

Of course.

racists

Mkay...depleted uranium sucks...the electoral college sucks...Bush sucks...poor spelling/ grammar sucks...cocaine sucks...making personal attacks in the guise of "discourse" sucks...many parts of America suck...

AND

The constitution does not suck...Michael Moore is a propagandist that does not suck...The Nation does not suck...revealing Peace Frog's true gender ("on the inside") does not suck.

I think that's all.

Now I am pissed and I dont give a shit how old I am. You guys are full of shit. I present my youth. That is good, I am not some 25 year old who sits at home and doesnt do shit. That is good I present my youth. I just dont think you can say I am completely wrong and believe everything I hear. If that were true I wouldnt be online almost every day reasearching this shit. You are stuck with the media ass holes who lie to every american every day on the news. You dont know shit, you just want to sound like a bad ass who talks down to 14 year old kid. You remind me of my friend elliot who says shit to sound hard


p.s: thats not a good thing

I was kidding about the cocaine. Everyone who knows me knows I'm a junkie.

And hereiamagain, the people that you say are " 25 year old who sits at home and doesnt do shit" all have jobs, and are just trying to show you that there is more than one side to every story. And you do present your youth, in posts like this, unwilling to take a little advice from very nice people who are older and wiser. I think you meant "represent your youth," by the way, and I certainly hope you don't.

When I was fifteen, I thought I knew everything. Now I'm nineteen, and think I was a stupid fifteen-year old kid. When I'm twenty-five, I'm going to look back on nineteen and realise what a fool I was. That's going to continue throughout my life, because people grow and learn new things as the years go by, as long as they're willing to accept useful criticism and advice without freaking out.

Read up on politics, if it means so much to you. Do research. Present valid arguments, with points and counterpoints. Then we bad-asses won't pick on you so much. Maybe.

Actually, I believe Carl is 26, but he hasn't said anything mean to my knowledge.

Agreed. I know you're not directing that to me, but i still want to say that I do see his value, haven't seen Bowling for Columbine, yet. I will though, and I will like it. He doesn't suck, as the beautiful ms. Lauren stated.

I'm quite confident that everyone on this messageboard does, indeed, do shit. I know I do, but I'm not 25, so I don't think I count.

Dude, I know your sick of the shit you've been getting, but don't let it get to you. Or at leat don't lash out like that.

And that is true about Elliott. Hee-hee-hee.

I am willing to take your advice. I was saying in the posts that I just dont agree with you. Yes you are nice people I am sorry about the whole dont do shit deal. But you didnt listen to what I was saying at all. I said america sucks. But you guys took it the wrong way. And I tried rephrasing it, but all you did was insult me about how I present my youth.
I can take critiscm, but you pick on me because of my beliefs and thats not cool at all. I read up on the news, but the news is all lies. I go to anti-bush websites to see how they feel about all this stuff. And if i dint agree that would call me immature just because I disagree.

Geeze, you make one little pass at a guy's wife and he has to call you out like that...

For the record, yes, I am 26 and no, I don't sit at home and do shit. I sit in a laboratory and do shit.

You gotta be fucking kidding me... I'm not even going to comment on the ridiculousness of this. You are worse than a conspiracy theorist...

Look I said sorry ok. I realize yall do shit, ok. But my point is now yall dont read what I have to say and I can easily tell.

Personally, I've read, processed, and considered every word you've said. I don't mean to disrespect your independent opinion, honestly. I just wish you'd realize that many of your sources seem questionable. Michael Moore can't be uniformly trusted on certain political issues. I love the man's films, I've said it many times. But, as Lauren pointed out, he's a propagandist who rocks. We like him, but we like him only as far as we trust him, or regardless of whether or not we can trust him. In either case, we enjoy his work without actually buying in to every aspect of it. "Understanding that there is more than one side to every story" means finding corroboration from an unbiased source, or even a source of a different bias. Finding the same news on a number of "anti-bush websites" is going to be easy. Finding that same information on a site that doesn't profess itself to have already made up its mind would be much better. That's all I've been trying to say, and maybe I haven't been clear, and maybe you still disagree with me. I'll tell you in all sincerity that you'll either find that you're wrong, or you'll become a very scary individual. I hope it is the prior and I hope it is soon.

No hard feelings, alright?

Will

This whole topic has just gotten ridiculous.

How ironic that you should bring up Elliott.

I am sure my sources are quite questionable. But it doesnt mean its all wrong. I agree with you however the small details of my point I am trying to prove maybe questionable, but the big picture is not. Bush is a bad president who kills Iraq citizens and calls it fighting terrorism. Hahahahaha that is using our technology to kill innocent people, not fighting terrorism. I really appreciate thet you have actually read what I have posted.

p.s:jamiecarroll do you know Elliot.

Funny, questionable resources are what got us into the war. Bush decided that a questionable statement from a known liar about Iraq trying to secure plutonium or uranium from Africa was enouogh for him. Hurts when its on the other foot, eh?

Those questionable sources of George Bush suck.

Yes they do, I was just pointing out that you are using the old "my questionable resources are better because they say what I want to hear" defense.

(Edited by Peace Frog at 11:34 pm on Dec. 15, 2003)

Yes I do?

He's really not as annoying as he seemed.

It's not that he's annoying, he's just talks a lot of shit.

How do you know elliot?

My band played at his graduation party. Well, actually both of them - the public one at Marsha Blackburn's house and the private one at the ivory tower: poolside. Elliott guested on bass guitar at both! A couple of years later, he guested with the Features, but on vocals, not bass. Nowadays, I mostly see Elliott when I'm bowling with him or watching football in his living room. He can grill a Boston Butt like none other!

I think we have the wrong Elliott , the Elliott I know is 15.

I know that Elliot!!! Does he hang around with a funny little old guy that eats Reese's Pieces and always yaps about phoning home?

Aw, cut W. some slack, Frog. What if Sadaam DID have Flux Capacitors hidden all over his rogue state? What if they're STILL at large? What if they fall into the wrong hands? We could have Al Qaeda going back to 1965 to snuff out Minoru Yamasaki even before he designed the Twin Towers. Or to Connecticut in 1945 to crash the romantic evening between Barbara and Daddy George that led to W. I think this is justification enough.

Well I stand corrected. If there is even a slightest hint of a flux capacitor loose we need our troops all over the globe. This goes for DeLoreans as well. Can never be to safe when it comes to defending the homeland.

For all the discord we have had Lauren I have to say this is one the best lines I have ever read in here...

Thanks...truce?

Sure...I will just shut my piehole when I am in politics forum...

Someone I know was wondering if Saddam was the real one and not some fake one.

I'm pretty sure they did some genetic and dental identification. Aren't scientists dreamy?

It sure was strange to see this once-powerful world leader being subjected to those tests for the world to see. He looked so pathetic that it almost made me feel sorry for the guy.

But WHO'S scientists? Bush's scientists? Ha! I bet they didn't even graduate scientist school.

Exactly

Huh, huh. Bush is stupid! And so are his scientists!

Hey dudes....someone pull my finger...

Would a Bush scientist be a gynocologist?

I believe that is the lowest I have sunk.

I guess I am just as low because you took the words right out of my mouth.

That honestly makes me feel a lot better. Great, tasteless things like that usually pop into my head far too late to post.

That's good. It leaves more room for... okay, nevermind.

The Features have the best fans on the planet.

(Edited by carligula at 11:05 am on Dec. 19, 2003)

I believe that is the highest level of humor I've had in a long time---esp. since I'm in the field, ha.