www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.netLife After the Oil Crash

(Edited by stalker on skates at 8:14 am on Mar. 17, 2004)

This is the most terrifying thing I've ever seen. Where did you find it?

i've got some books on the imminent threat of Y2K I could post on here, too.

Edit: I suppose I should add a 'thank you' because I'm a big fan of conspiracy theory and Coast to Coast and The Kingdom of Knye.

(Edited by foldsfan at 11:55 am on Mar. 17, 2004)

The science guy is royalty?

call me a skeptic, but it seems like a crock to me. probably just another way to rape us for gas.
in the event that it does happen however, anyone up for a little hard livin? you know commune style.

(Edited by Cautioner at 12:42 pm on Mar. 17, 2004)

I have no idea how to take that link...either way it scares me shitless...

(Edited by Flat Chop To The Throat at 1:21 pm on Mar. 17, 2004)

I've been working on a documentary concerning global energy demands (centered around a solar car race) and I can tell you from our research and interviews that this website, while having a nugget of truth, is generally the sky is falling. Everything on it is doom and gloom, there is no hope. One thing you should remember when reading it, is that the oil companies are in the business of making money. If they know or have an idea as to when oil supply passes its peak, don't you think they'd be searching high and low for alternatives to sell to us? They aren't gong to sit there with a thumb up their ass. That's why you have a divisions of companies like BP Solar.

A little fact to chew on the next time you are in a big box store. If 10% of the boxstores in the country put two 50ft solar arrays on their roofs to use as supplement energy for air conditioning and heating, the nation would save 5% of its energy consumption. That is huge. Peak energy usage is during the day when businesses are open and people are out and about. This is also when the sun is at it's most powerful. There would be about a three hour window (90 minutes each side of solar noon) where 90% of the electrical needs of the store would be met by the sun.

So, while solar can't run your car or jet airplane it can divert those resources needed. Imagine if the country made it mandatory for stores and offices with over a set amount of flat top square footage were required to use solar. We could stretch the current oil supply for another 150-200 years.

And some of the facts on that website are just plain wrong. The only reason ethanol is more expensive to produce per gallon than gas, is that the oil industry has bucked the use of ethanol for years. Why? Because if the infrastructure was in place to make ethanol, we could make as low as an 80-20 mix of ethanol per gasoline. What does that mean? Profits for oil companies dip 80%. Currently, for every 50 oil refineries that make gas there is one that makes ethanol. Basic macro economics can tell you that it is much cheaper to mass produce than it is custom make. That is essentially what we are looking at with gas versus gasahol.

I could go on forever about some of these claims, but I'll spare the diatribe. All of my facts are coming from the Dept of Energy research labs. We interviewed their spokesperson and was given more info than I care to read. Some of it is surprising, too. Like the SUV thing. We assumed that they would be very anti SUV, but they weren't, as long as it (the SUV) was being used for its purpose (hauling cargo or multiple people). Their big beef was when one person would run to the store down the street to pick up a loaf of bread. It's called resource mismanagement. If you drive a SUV to work with even three people in it, you are saving energy . Of course if you were all crammed in a Honda Civic you'd save more, but their point is, purposeful use of your resources can extend the oil supply for a long time.

As for peak oil, this spokesman was saying that they are discovering oil at an increasinng pace due to technological advancements. There is a finite amount of oil. But no one knows how much there is, or when it will run out.

Well Christ, I feel better now. Thanks for the info. But I'll still be hoarding fuel in my bunker just to be safe.

Save a spot for me, just in case that was a shadow government op that was diverting us away from the impending doom. I'll bring your mixtape then, too.

That's exactly what it was designed to do.

Now, next you'll say to yourself: "Damn, I guess we'd better get Bush out of office." And with that, my friend, the creator of this page will have accomplished his goal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely in favor of pursuring alternative sources of energy. I do think that a move away from oil will eventually change many things about our society. But it's not going to be a fucking apocolypse like that site describes. I mean, give me a fucking break.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 3:26 pm on Mar. 17, 2004)

Word. I need to get on that.

I think the problem is that people either worry like hell over it, or they don't worry at all. There seems to be no middle ground. It won't hurt to worry a little, and possibly look into changing some of the ways we get energy. Nobody is interested in taking preventative measures; like the guy said, we're not going to know there is a problem until after the fact. Peace Frog made some really good points about solutions, but there are a lot of "if's" and "could's." Are people really going to change the way they live before something happens? I don't think so. People are lazy, ignorant, and very money-minded. I don't think there are enough hardcore environmentalists (not necessarily hippies or liberals) to pick up the slack for the general population.

I don't think he said very much about Bush at all. I think the issue is much larger than who we have in office, and although a lot of people like to blame Bush, he didn't do this in the last 4 years. It's been going on for over a hundred years.


How do you know? I haven't joined this guy's "side" yet, but we don't know what will happen one way or the other. We rely too heavily on other people to fix things for us or for problems to fix themselves. I think apathy is the worst possible reaction.

That's what's so genius about it! It's what's implied. And it's not about who caused it, man, it's about what'rwegonnadoNOW?


You know what? I don't know. That's the thing about the future is that it's never happened before, so no one can know for sure. But I can make an educated guess. And that's what I've done. This is one web site. I am a faily well-read and well-informed individual, and I have never heard any of this apocolypse talk ANYWHERE else. I have of course heard talk of an oil shortage. And I believe it's true. But I've heard many, many people say things like PeaceFrog said, which is that yes, we do need to think about the future and other kinds of energy, but the world is not coming to an end. We have leads, man.

And concerning letting other people think for us, I am perfectly content to do that, and so are you. Do you not go to the doctor when you're sick? Do you not let the pilot fly the plane? Everybody cannot know everything about everything. Call me crazy, but I AM content to let the "experts" handle this.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 3:55 pm on Mar. 17, 2004)

I remember thinking when I was a child that I'd live to see the apocalypse.

I remember thinking when I was a child that I'd live to see flying cars and everything powered by solar electricity. I mean, really. It works for calculators.

Yeah, that's what all the other kids said.

Again because of economics, it costs a lot to manufacture good solar cells (gallium arsenide, I believe is what they are called) The ones in calculators are very inefficient in their collection (but yet look how well they work for what they do) If there was a demand (such as legislation to mandate that companies need to have them on their stores) costs would go down and you'd see them all over the place.

The solar cars that are in the doc we shot have about $50k worth of solar cells on them. They are usually rejected cells for satellite purposes, but work very well for terrestial uses. There are solutions out there, and we'll start to see them creep into the market place as technology versus profitablility meet. Like hybrid cars. Until recently, the big hinderence to them was battery weight, but since car companies have seen that there is a demand for them, they have done the research and are continually making more powerful and lighter batteries.

I agree with BofF about the apathy part. But the onus is on big business to supply these alternatives to us. I'm not going to go out and spend $30k on a solar array that will pay for itself over ten years. Its more affordable for me to pay my on demand fees. If there was an array that was out there for $1k then we may have a decision to make, but until someone makes it profitable for me to use an alternative energy source, I'll pay my gas and electric bill each month.

sorry that my sarcasm was not apparent.

I totally saw the sarcasm... I've just been living with this subject for almost a year now... I should just shut up. Nobody wants to hear this crap anymore...

The end of the world is near!!! RUN!!!

(Edited by Peace Frog at 3:24 pm on Mar. 17, 2004)

I wasn't saying I didn't want to hear it. i support hybrid and electric cars as much as your average guy who supports them. I'd buy one right now if only I had the money/trade-in value for such.

I remember thinking when I was a child that I'd love to see the apocalypse.

I think Sam Smith of Lifeboy once said that the apocalypse was going to be awesome. I don't have an exact quote though. Sorry.

The "experts" know what's going on, and we have to depend on them to an extent. But a problem like this can't be solved by them alone. It's up to the general population to actually pay attention to them and practice what they profess we should do. They're leading us to the water, but that doesn't mean we'll all drink.

I remember from my high school Economics teacher (vaguely) that companies have been developing gas/oil alternative means of energy for years, but they are being shelved until they are "needed" or until they will benefit the companies the most in sales. i.e. they've already got the stuff, but they'll make more money on it if they wait until a crisis. Anyone know more about this?

I think the anarchy associated with the apocalypse is more than somewhat appealing to a lot of people (including me).

I have heard the exact same thing, but I don't know if it's true.

I, for one, found everything you have said very interesting, so...thanks.

And I have as well. I'm reading Brave New World right now, so I automatically jumped the gun on the "end of the world" crap. Great book by the way... Now I know what Havesomesoma's screen name means.

Yes. This is true. Most oil companies have large R&D departments that constantly investigate alternative sources, and then patent them for that company's gain, and to prevent such things from cutting into their current oil business. These'll all see the light of day when it is most profitable. I've definitely heard of a vegetable-based fuel that could power automobiles that has been restricted in such a manner.

What I think is interesting though, is that if all of these are proprietary and patented, then wehn they are needed we'll have all of these disparate, competing energy sources without standardization. Which will be very confusing for the market and eventually someone will win and will dominate the entire energy market.

PF, I wanna see the doc when it is done. Let us know.

Will

Here's something a bit more level-headed on the subject. Enjoy.