Let's talk about all the good things
and the bad things
That may be
Let's talk about SELF...

It used to be that the Features couldn't help but be mentioned as a footnote to Self. This was especially true during the hey day of Spongebath, between 97 and 98. But now, Self has been gone for a few years now. The Features are stronger than ever.

So I'm curious. Who here is a Self fan? Who isn't? Who has never heard of them? Who came to know the Features through Self?

Please discuss.

I admit that I know very little about Self. I lived in Georgia when Self was starting to break and never really investigated their work. What I've heard I haven't be impressed with. I have a friend that is a pretty big fan, and we always argue about who is better; Self or the Features. And Jason Rawlings works at the elementary school down the street from my house.

That is all I have to contribute....

I first heard Self on the radio here in Nashville. They used to play "Cannon" and "So Low." What year was that, like 1994...1995? Anyway, I loved those songs, but I had NO CLUE that Self was from Murfreesboro until about a year later when I somehow found out. Yeah, I know I was an idiot, but in high school, I wasn't aware of the Murfreesboro music scene at all. When I did find out, I bought Subliminal Plastic Motives and instantly fell in love with the band. My mind was blown that a band this great was from Tennessee. So I guess ever since, I've been a huge fan. I've seen them live about 10 times. First show: opening for Cracker at 328 in 1996. Last show: 2NMC 2001 at 328. Best show: Halloween Bash-a-thon 1999 at Main Street (R.I.P.). But I wouldn't really call Self a great live band. The entertainment value and showmanship are really good, but I think they have a hard time pulling off a lot of their music live.

Even so, I think that Matt Mahaffey is nothing short of a full-fledged genius. Every one of their albums is a masterpiece (except maybe Half Baked Serenade). I like Breakfast With Girls the best, and in fact, I'd call it my third-favorite album of all time, right behind the white album and The Great Escape. I do think it's a real bummer that they take so long to put out albums, but I cannot wait to hear the new one!

I definitely found out about the Features through my love of Self. I used to go to the Spongebath website for Self information and would always see the Features (and the FlOz) mentioned, but I never really thought anything about them, or bothered to look into them. My seeing the Features for the first time, however, was completely unrelated to Self. As for comparing Self and the Features, for me it really is apples and oranges. The Features are a rock band, Self is more like an orchestra; the dynamics that make each band great are SO different. The Features are a much better live band and Matt Pelham is a much better songwriter. But the Features don't have the incredible body of recorded material that Self has (at least not yet). I love both.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 9:57 pm on Apr. 13, 2003)

I had never heard of Self since I didn't live in Rutherford County at the time. Whenever I moved here, a lot of people were like "You don't know who Self is? What's your deal?" All I really know is that 'Cannon' isn't that great of a song and the random bits I've heard haven't exactly been my cup of tea at all. I don't get it and that may be because I'm a late-Boro transplant.

i probably know less about self than anyone on this board. do i get some sort of prize? i don't think i've ever even heard a self song (knowingly at least). i have a friend who is a big fan and occassionally babysits for jason rawlings. she gave me a single that he gave her to hand out. it says it has the songs "meg ryan" and "it all comes out in the wash" on it from "breakfast with girls." it's still sealed and just sitting around in my room. anyone's more than welcome to have it if they would like it...

(Edited by HaveSomeSoma at 4:18 pm on Apr. 13, 2003)

i dont like self.....

I don't even like myself...




(Edited by DigsySlattery at 4:35 pm on Apr. 13, 2003)

Why don't you un-seal it and listen to it?

right after i posted i realized someone was going to ask that...and a very valid question it is. honestly, i just never really get around to it. i have so many burned cds of bands that i have been meaning to listen to (or cds i haven't heard from bands i already like) that everytime i go to pop in a new one, i go for one of those. self just isn't too high on my "to listen to" list.

and besides, if i did decide to give self a try, i would download a few songs before i unsealed it. that way, if i don't like it, i can still give the sealed one as a nice present. maybe a random self fan who happens not to have it may cross my path in the future.

warped logic, i know....

I absolutely love Self. When I started listening to music when I was around 14 I remember hearing cannon on KDF and I just loved it. I got to see them live at least 3 or 4 times. I kinda lost track of what was going on with them around 98-2000, but when I started asking questions I was lead to also listen to the features. I can't wait for the new Self album.

I actually came to know Self through the Features. I like some of their stuff ok but I'm not a huge fan. I have Breakfast with Girls and I really never listen to it. When I started trying to force my friends in my hometown to listen to the Features, a couple were interested to know that they had connections with Self. I was surprised to learn that they had heard of Self.

honestly, i've heard the name SELF mention once or twice. i've never heard any of their music that i recall. i also have no clue how the features and self are connected. i would, however, be interested in finding that out. the reason for me not knowing self ,probably has a lot to do with not being from murfreesboro or middle tennessee. 1994-1995? well....i was only 9-10ish at that time.......so, needless to say, i did not keep up with the music scene.

(Edited by Charlotte at 8:41 pm on Apr. 13, 2003)

I had a friend tell me about self one time, but I've never heard them, from what my firend told me it was one guy, I think that takes talent, so enevn tough I've never heard him I do have some respect for him for that.

Self and the Features were both on Spongebath Records, a Murfreesboro record label from about 1995 to 2000. Since both bands were based in Murfreesboro and were on the same label, they often played shows together in M'boro and Nashville. Also, Self mainman Matt Mahaffey produced a Features album which never got released.

charlotte, sometimes you make me feel old.

haha...sorry... you're not old...i promise..

(Edited by Charlotte at 10:45 pm on Apr. 13, 2003)

thanks for the information. it all makes sense now. what ever happened to Self? i haven't heard anything about them recently....

The last album that they released was Gizmodgery, an album made entirely with toys, in 2000. They played a handful of shows in support of that album. 3 of the 5 members moved to L.A. in 2000. They've been "working on their next album" for about 2-3 years, on their own and with Mario Caldato Jr. ("Mario C" of Beastie Boys fame). All the while, the California members have been involved in other things, from Smashmouth albums to Shrek to Expedia.com commercials.

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 4:40 am on Apr. 14, 2003)

Here is the link to where it was first discussed early in the board's history.

My view hasn't really changed since then. I'm very neutral toward them. I do credit them with pointing me to the Features. It was going to my first two Self shows that I saw the Features the first two times (the second of which had me bored with Self and hooked on the Features).

They're not a bad band. Their live show has some really really good points and some really bad ones, so it's hit or miss as to whether I'll like them live.
The bad--the samples in the background that are almost equivalent to having a backing track on stage (like NKOTB)
The good--they're great at throwing in covers in their sets or in the middle of their songs. It's a nice treat to hear "Beat It" in the middle of Big Important Nothing or Portishead's "Sour Times" on its own.

The first show I ever saw when I came to MTSU from Ohio was Self and Count Bass D at 12th and Porter. This was fall '98. I liked Subliminal but not much else. I thought they were a good band but they never grabbed me by the gut like the Features. I've seen them live probably 10 times over the years and they might be the most hit and miss band i've ever seen.
Another footnote to those not familiar with Self: That's them on the closing credits of Shrek.

I think Breakfast With Girls is an awesome album. I've never gotten into the rest of their catalogue, although Gizmodgery has a couple good moments (who can deny "Truck Fulla Amps"?). I didn't get into The Features through Self.

If I were to rank Self albums, I'd put it

1. Half Baked Serenade
2. Gizmodgery
3. Subliminal Plastic Motives
4. Breakfast with Girls

I'm just noticing and pointing out this difference. It's funny that the take of the rest of you is so different.

Ahhh Self. My story is one I know I've told once or twice on this board, but this seems an opportune time to tell it again, seeing as its actually what the topic is about.

My friend and I became HUGE Self fans after Cannon and So Low got alot of radio play on KDF back in 95 (or thereabouts). We got Subliminal and loved it, and signed up for the Spongebath mailing list. We felt so lucky to have this great band from around us that no one knew about.

Wishing we'd hear more Self on KDF, we tried to find it elsewhere and stumbled onto Thunder 94. They played alot of Self and life was good. Very good. They started playing KiDdiES and we were sure that the next album was going to be big. Really big. Beginning of my freshman year of high school, there was a Spongebath show at 328 sponsored by Thunder 94. We wanted to go, but couldn't. They were giving out copies of Half Baked Serenade. Knowing this, we knew that the station would have a copy of the full album. We put two and two together and decided to call into the station every Sunday night during the Thunderground Radio program that was devoted to local bands. Joy the Mechanical boy was already getting plenty of play at that time (on Thunder 94 anyway). Our calls resulted in the first (and perhaps only) broadcast of Cinderblocks for Shoes (which I know got plenty more play), Preskool Days, Crimes on Paper, and Cater to Your Ego. We made a tape, which I still have, that includes all 6 songs that had been played at that point, and that held us over til the album was made available for purchase. The tape, interestingly, even includes the clips of us on the phone asking to hear "new Self, something that hasn't been played before. I recently listened to it and had a memory lane kick. Anyhow...

Eventually the postcard came from Spongebath advertising Half Bakes, The Features EP, and Big Notebook for Easy Piano (along with Gumption). I oredered all but Gumption, which I believe never came out. I fell in love with The Features especially, and I dug the Ounces.

I moved to Chattanooga on the day that Thunder 94 broadcast for the last time. I found this to be oddly ironic.

Then, in the summer of 98, Spongebath had a Dancin' in the District show. My other friend, who had seen and loved The Features but loathed Self and the Ounces, came to Chatt-town to pick me up and we raced to make the District show at speeds that at times reached 120 mph. We made it AT 7:00, when we'd heard The Features would take stage. They finished at 7, and I missed them. I saw Self and FLOZ, and loved both, grabbed my Features sun shirt and the Spongebath Samplers. I fell in love with the new Features tunes.

This all kept me going... I grabbed Vegetable Kingdom when it was announced, and signed up early and so have a signed copy. I grabbed New Old Fashioned Way while in the Boro for Governor's School in the summer of 99. I continued to buy and love Self when Breakfast came out. I grabbed Gizmodgery as soon as it was made available.

Just after my senior year of high school finished, in the early summer of 2000, I visited the Spongebath offices to see if I could buy the Call Florence Pow record. Rich Williams talked with me and my friend for an hour and it was facinating conversation. At the end of it, he gave me the Thursday vinyl, Call Florence Pow, the C-60s, and Count Bass D's records, along with some Self and Features bumper stickers, which I regretably cannot find.

I didn't get to hear the Thursday single until the end of my Freshman year of college when I found a friend of mine had a digital turntable and he could rip a cd of the vinyl immediately. I fell in love with Thursday and The Features all over again. I got on the Spongebath messageboard and asked if there was more Features stuff that I didn't have. Someone sent me a 5 disc Mahaffey sampler. All of this was all I knew of The Features until last Summer, when I FINALLY got to see them in concert at DitD. The rest of that is all on this board.

As for Self, they (along with The Features) fall in my top ten bands of all time. I still love everything they do, I love the newest songs (Busy Sending Me, Brooklyn, Potential, and Knew What I know Now). I await Ornament and Crime more than any other record save The Features record. Self is not as good a band live as The Features, and I'm liking The Features more and more every day.

Ranking of Self Albums:
1. Breakfast With Girls
2. Half-Baked Serenade
3. Selfafornia
4. Subliminal Plastic Motives
5. Brunch
6. Gizmodgery
7. Feels Like Breakin' Shit

Favorite Self Song: Ressurect
Runners Up: Flip Top Box, Wide Awake at Seven, So Low, What Are You Thinking, Placing the Blame

That's it. If you read it all I'm amazed.

Will

I worked at Spongebath and enjoyed them both. I particularly enjoyed attending Features concerts and watching my friend Ben immediately march around the venue during "Thursday." Alas, I kind of wish that song was retired forever.. but I suppose that's not my call.


Michael

There's alot to be said about this... it has been mentioned tons of times. But going to shows, especially in Knoxville and Chattanooga, I realize that alot of people are sold on the band from Thursday and return to hear it again... I do think it is one of the band's best songs, indeed one of the greatest songs I've ever heard. It sold my mom on the band, and that says something. Its an amazing anthem whose sentiments resonate with so many people... you can't keep it down. If it went away forever, I'd be heartbroken. The band must be sick of it, its certainly their oldest song that still gets regular play. Its also the greatest way to close a show that I know of.

Will

I like all the recorded stuff I've heard, but thought they were absolutely terrible the only time I saw them live - that last show at 328. However, I probably wouldn't have thought they were so bad if I hadn't heard their other albums already. The sort of songs they played that night sounded nothing like what I had already heard, and I much preferred what I'd heard. That show hurt my impression of them, I think. I have never had a strong desire to see them live since.

i only have breakfast with girls but it rocks my face off.

wiyum, im quite impressed with your essay writing skills. however, ive been reading essays since abour 6:00pm and i just couldn't do it. nmaaybe another time.

Just my $.02 real quick:
I love Self. But I'm also willing to admit that enjoying Self is an acquired taste--meaning, i thought most of their stuff was simply "over my head" for a while, and I couldn't grasp it. I also couldn't really process all of the information the band was throwing at me (there's a lot to absorb when listening to even the simplest Self song.) But, one day, I guess in 98 or so, I just GOT IT, and since then I've adored their work. But, as i said earlier, output is a function of input. I really WANTED to understand why this band was so revered critically and amongst all my friends. It takes some time to "get" Self. I think you kind of have to want it. It's like David Fricke says in that Wilco documentary, people will either get it or they won't, and it's a shame that all of us now generally look at art in terms of how much time we have to devote to it (yes, I'm paraphrasing, and yes, I think Self/Matt Mahaffey are wonderful artists.) They truly paint with sound.
I can see why a lot of Features fans wouldn't dig Self..the Features are very accessible and ear-friendly. Self is more monolithic in some ways.

Whatever.

i love Self. i could talk for hours about them but those 3 words are the best i can use to describe how i feel about this wonderful exciting band.

(Edited by ghostflower at 2:41 pm on Apr. 15, 2003)

oh yeah and breakfast with girls is one of the most underrated albums of all time. (just my small opinion)

i just found some Self (or something so-labelled) hidden away on my computer, and i was wondering if "titanic", "moronic", and "Lucid Anne" are representative of Self as a whole...if so, i think they suck.

That's NOT AT ALL representative. First of all, you might or might not have noticed, but 2 of those three songs ("Titanic" and "Moronic") are parodies of, respectively, "Gigantic" by the Pixies and "Ironic" by Alanis Morisette. Those songs were never officially released and were (as best as I can tell) just done for a laugh. As far as "Lucid Anne" goes, it is an original, but I think that it's one of the weakest songs that Self has ever done.

On another note, I still laugh every time I hear the bridge of "Moronic":

'And she has a funny funny way
of processing all of her vocals through a stereo chorus and delay-ay.'

(Edited by jamiecarroll at 5:54 am on Apr. 17, 2003)

Gotta go with jamie here, Damon. If you notice, Feels Like Breakin' Shit is at the bottom of my list of their albums. I really love alot of it, but lose all respect for it due to those two songs and a few select others.

Meanwhile, if you want some good Self, most of the songs on my top songs list (above in this post) are available from self contained, the fansite linked from the official site at www.selfmusic.net

Will

I hear Matt Mahaffey backed Mandy Moore on the Craig Kilborn show.

Yet another example of his extreme relevance.

I'd like to back Mandy Moore, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, I thought this was Carligula.com there for a minute.

One thing I will say about Self is that they are better enjoyed with lots of different songs. So many things go into the different eras and individual songs that finding one's forte with the band doesn't come as easily as listening to any 3 songs from the Self cannon.

yeah, i thought it would be odd if a band that was so popular as Self on this message board was merely a parody band...