So I am readin OPEC is cutting production by another 1 million barrels, which could send the price of oil to over $40 a barrel according to some. So how screwed will the economy be if energy costs continue to rise?

Your thoughts on gas prices, OPEC, the economy, or anything else relevant?

Really screwed.

yeah, already forgot about that one, well then anyone wanna bitch about opec?

let's all go get those cars that you plug in. like leo dicaprio has. he's so dreamy, i have to do what he says.

seriously, i don't believe in the scare tactics. i believe in supply and demand.

yeah...let's all get electric cars. i mean electricity just falls out of the fuckin sky. no fossil fuels involved there.

Well, many things that can be used for electricity do kind of "fall" out of the fucking sky. Wind, rain, solar rays.

(Edited by Ceeze at 11:04 am on Apr. 3, 2004)

The first thing I thought of was lightning....I don't know if/how it can be used, but hey.....it's electricity.

and me without my kite and key.

here's what i really think: right now, electric cars are not efficient, viable alternative options. it is my understanding that the design and technology for electric and hybrid cars has been around for quite a while, but it was overshadowed by the combustable engine. the lack of interest has slowed the advances in this industry, and even now, the electric car is still presented far below its full potential. i have enough damn trouble remembering to recharge my phone, much less remembering to set aside 3+ hours to recharge my car just so that it can go about 120 miles before it needs to recharge again. and what if i'm taking a road trip to dollywood? at which electric car recharge station shall i stop along the way to recharge my car, and add a few hours to a trip that should've taken about three. furthermore, let's look at how electric cars are powered: rechargeable batteries. batteries which are created from plants that create energy, burning natural gas and releasing pollutants, and batteries that must be disposed of when exhausted, once again releasing toxins into our beloved environment.

right now, i think that this is not a reasonable option. but someday it may be when the demand increases. electric cars could be a legitimate possibility in the future, and i like the idea of exploring our options. for now, i think the goverment is placing an unnatural shift in the marketplace.

i hear the environment concerns, and i care and shit. i'm not gonna actively litter. but when underground earthquakes and volcanic eruptions occuring on a daily basis in the middle of the pacific ocean present more harmful emissions than all of the cars in california, i gotta think we're spinning our wheels worrying about this.

did you guys know that they made a car that runs on water? but the government is covering it up so we buy more oil. water, man, water!

When you say "not efficient" I'm just hearing "not convenient." So what if there's a lack of interest? That doesn't mean it's not a good alternative. Saying that it'll be too much trouble to charge your car up before a trip is a weak argument. We're all going to have to make sacrifices sooner or later, whether it's adapting to new technology, or dealing with the expense and scarcity of the current technology. Also, I don't believe that the creation and disposal of the rechargable batteries will in any way compare to the pollution currently caused by combustion exhaust. And for your statement about the government placing an "unnatural shift in the marketplace"? Come on. There's no better time than now to start thinking about this stuff. People are stubborn. The sooner this technology is exposed to the people, the sooner it will take effect.

The general argument that a technology shift is too much trouble irks me. People would rather pay higher gas prices while kicking and screaming just so they can hold on to a few comforts than subscribe to a slightly new way of life. Maybe it will be a lot of trouble at first, but I think this time it might be worth it.

(Edited by Bowl of Fire at 3:46 pm on Apr. 3, 2004)

No it's not. If it takes 3 hours to charge a car for only 2 to 3 hours of driving, that's just inefficient. That's taking 5 or 6 hours to go 120 miles. You can match that pace on a good bicycle.

Charge it while you're asleep. Think ahead and charge it 3 hours before you intend to depart.

Sure. But what if you're travelling somewhere that's more than 120 miles away (like Dollywood, for example)? You drive for two hours, then charge for three hours, then drive for two more, then stop again to charge? So inefficient.

i wasn't trying to make inefficient and inconvenient synonymous. but while you mention it, it think that the current state of electric and hybrid cars can be aptly described with both terms.

i say inefficient, as in incompetent, lacking effectiveness. and i blame this entirely on the fact that the technology is too new. we’re dealing with the fact that the concepts may be old, the design, research and implementation is still in infantile stages. hybrid cars came about because of so many difficulties with straight up electric cars. and they’re certainly a better step, and may indeed be a viable option in the future. for now, however, the design is too underdeveloped. the battery choice is debated (weight vs. energy held), studies are still active involving problems of batteries plus cold weather, and the batteries themselves require regular replacement due to shallow charge-discharge cycles. p.s. i’m not a nerd and i’m not scientific, i just work with photographic lighting and have had to become very familiar with battery types and lifespan/exhaustion problems with charging cycles.

i’ll say inconvenient, and damn skippy that’s a valid argument, as battery replacements cost upwards of $5,000, and the 3+ hours charge time is doubled when the battery is completely dead. not being able to go to dollywood is still a huge concern.

i’m not opposed to alternative sources of fuel, and i totally agree with you on the sacrifices/adapting statement, in that i’m not in favor of laziness overshadowing overall benefits to our world. however, we still have a long way to go before the most effective alternative is real. kinks, that’s what I’m saying. kinks must be worked out with electric and hybrid cars before they’re a good idea. and they very well could be a great idea. but more research and interest is required, and that will only happen when, back to my original statement, supply and demand calls for it...not the guv.

I think we're arguing in circles about technology as we know it now. Of course it's going to be inefficient/inconvenient now and I understand that. New technology like this relies on a few people to put faith into it and make sacrifices in order for the rest of the world to catch on. In the future, I have faith that whatever alternatives they have to offer will strive to be just as good as or better than what we're used to, but someone has to get the ball rolling.

In a way, I believe it's not such a bad thing to take a step backwards now and then. Everything new doesn't have to be "better" in every way. Sacrifices will inevitably have to be made. Maybe at one or two points in our lives we will have to make fire without lighter fluid and matches.